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June 02, 2008

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anon

the fact is muslims are free and do pass out tracts in 'leafy white surrey' and are free to do so. The counter is not the case - fear works both ways - what is more sad is these american guys are probably seeing their arrest as a badge of honour for the gospel rather than getting them to re evaluate there missional approach.
Its easy to slag of 'leafy white surrey' its harder to critique and model a better more effective way. Talk is cheap!

ashes2asha

Your point is well made. I just don't see how the handing out of evangelistic material in a Muslim area has got anything to do with the gospel. For me it's a cop-out from actually talking and engaging with people as equals. Authentic mission takes place through Jesus-centred relationships, action and words. This can't be done in an afternoon over a couple of hours - it's years of living alongside others and investing in community life.

anon

"For me it's a cop-out from actually talking and engaging with people as equals" - .
Totally agree - but the reality is its a site easier to do this in Britain than it is in Muslim countries
"Authentic mission takes place through Jesus-centred relationships, action and words."
Again totally agree but our missionlogical edge errs on the side of presence with little or no proclaimation out of fear?

ashes2asha

'...our missionlogical edge errs on the side of presence with little or no proclaimation out of fear?'
I get your point but it depends on what we mean by 'proclamation' - a neatly wrapped package of statements about beliefs that can fit neatly onto a tract is what is often regarded as proclamation. But that simply won't do. Real proclamation through the opening up of lives and homes and demonstrating the gospel through action and yes words is actually more authentic proclamation. I have found that there is no fear or antagonism with Muslims in my community when relationship forms the basis of discussion. But this is often too much like hard work for Christians who just want to go and tell people what to believe.

Paul Mote

I think often the reason people say, as a vicar from Putney did on the radio the other day, that it is "inappropriate" to preach to muslims, is that there is a fear that UK muslims will kill those of their own who convert to any other religion, as the three schools of Islam describe this as "apostacy". This would be bad for those who want the cracks papered over. Many many muslims who converted to Christendom have been expelled by their families, beaten up or had their house burned and had to flee. I see from last week's TIMES (or was it the week before) that in UK state schools, Imams are to be invited in to explain the Muslim faith, yet I suspect vicars will not be welcome other than in specifically Christian schools or a few liberal others. Always tolerance is demanded ("or else", say the pc police, effectively, who are agents of social change these days rather than enforcers of the law and protectors of our ancient freedoms and upholders/protectors of our common law rights) from us towards them. I fear that we try too hard to accommodate Islam, which can be very intolerant (no bibles permitted in most Middle Eastern countries, Jews not permitted to enter visit or live at all even in the most liberal such as Dubai where my cousin lives). In 50 years time they'll be wanting to burn our churches and have it made the law that apostacy be punished by death, as it it already officially is in 20 countries (the burning of churches has already happened in Bradford, plus a racial attack by muslims on a vicar 6 weeks ago, plus numerous attacks on Jewish cemeteries all over the UK).
Already as the Bishop of Rochester has said we have no-go areas in the UK, and the way these muslim PCSOs spoke to the preachers makes quite clear that these police had no respect at all for the laws and freedoms of the UK and took the view that a muslim area is indeed a no-go area for Christians. Freedom of speech is absolute and DOES include the right to "offend". And the gospel is a message of love, and its conveyance by any means can never be classed as a "hate crime". Saying, "but their evangelism was ineffective and I'd have liked to see it done another way" is a complete cop-out from the free speech issues involved.
From The Daily Telegraph, 9th June :
Hazel Blears, Communities Secretary, says sidelining of Christianity is
'common sense' By George Pitcher and Jonathan Wynne-
09/06/2008 Hazel Blears, the Communities Secretary, defended
Labour's policy on religion after a report backed by the Church of
England claimed that Muslims receive a disproportionate amount of
attention. She said it was right that more money and effort was spent
on Islam than Christianity because of the threat from extremism and
home-grown terrorism.
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/labour/2096385/Labour-Hazel-Blears-says-sidelining-of-Christianity-is-'common-sense'.html

Paul Mote

"An official no-go area for Christians? Excuse me: I need a drink"

(an article from "The Spectator" Magazine - published by Rod Liddle Wednesday, 4th June 2008, available to read and view on-line for free at www.spectator.co.uk which is where this is pasted from. Also available in the magazine).

Rod Liddle is outraged by the community support officer in Birmingham who threatened two Christian evangelical ministers with arrest for handing out Gospel literature in a Muslim neighbourhood

A week or so back, my two-year-old daughter said to me, apropos of nothing: ‘You have been sad since you lost Jesus.’ I didn’t really know what to do, so I looked at her open-mouthed for a bit and then fixed myself a stiff drink. Best not to get involved, I reckon. Later — again, out of the blue — she told me with great happiness that she was ‘covered with the blood of Jesus’, at which point I wondered if I
should have a quiet word with her Sunday school teacher, or maybe her Gran, who is a fairly muscular born-again evangelical monkey and from whom this whacko stuff may have emanated. Sad since I lost Jesus? I’ve
been sad since Douglas Alexander was made a Cabinet minister and even sadder since the pubs closed. As for Jesus, I wasn’t aware I had lost Him, or even had been properly in possession of Him in the first place.
But disquieting though all of this was, it didn’t occur to me to have my daughter arrested.

Two Christian evangelical ministers, Arthur Cunningham and Joseph Abraham, ran into a spot of trouble saying what I imagine was much the same sort of stuff in Alum Rock Road in Birmingham. They were there handing out various bits of Gospel propaganda and a chap called Naeem
Naguthney, allegedly, took extreme exception and told them to clear off.

He was, the ministers claimed, very threatening in his manner. When he found out the ministers were Americans he started having a go at them about George Bush and the war in Iraq. He told them that Alum Rock Road was a Muslim area and they were committing a ‘hate crime’. Well, fair enough, I suppose; if you wander into a Muslim area and start
spraying Jesus hither and thither, you might expect one or two more hot-tempered locals to take offence. Islam is a peaceable religion and anyone who doesn’t think so will have their head cut off, etc, etc.

But then Naeem threatened the two men with arrest: yes, incredible
though it may seem, he was indeed a policeman. Or, at least, a
community support officer — one of ‘Blunkett’s Bobbies’ — and a chap who is pretty well established within the National Association of Muslim Police. He has addressed government ministers and read to them from the Koran, apparently. Lucky government ministers. A couple of other faux-coppers arrived and one of them told the men that if they returned, they might get their heads kicked in. Cunningham and Abraham have lodged a complaint against the West Midlands police as a consequence —but don’t imagine that very much will come of it. So far the police have steadfastly refused to apologise and merely mentioned that one of the officers involved will be given a refresher course in ‘hate crimes’. Of course, the officer should be sacked immediately.

Hearing about this stuff, you sort of don’t know where to start. Maybe with the suggestion that while Alum Rock Road points in the direction of Mecca (one way at least; it probably points in the direction of, say,
Chepstow the other way around. But I suppose that’s not important right now), the rest of the country is nominally Christian. And that it is from our admittedly rather wishy-washy form of Christianity that we
draw our fervent belief in the freedom of speech and the freedom of conscience. And that following from this, it is the job of a police officer to protect that freedom of speech (so long as it is not inciting violence against one or another group or individual). It is no use
attempting to curry favour with our Muslim minority by employing
extravagantly bearded police officers if they won’t sign up to some of the most important laws on the statute book. A Muslim police officer is not at liberty to ignore the laws which do not accord with his faith; if he does that, he is no better than a semi-official vigilante, a uniformed gangster. What would be his reaction if a local bookshop
started selling the works of Salman Rushdie?

You may argue that the policeman was merely trying to keep the peace — in which case, we might as well say that Alum Rock Road is, in a serious sense, no longer a part of Britain, no longer under central jurisdiction. Like it or not — and believe me, West Midlands police do not like it one bit — Alum Rock Road is now a no-go area for proselytising Christians; perhaps it has been for some time. But now it
is a no-go area officially, according to the local police force — unless they do something about it, quickly.

Then there’s this business about hate crime — and I will have to
break off for a moment and fix another drink because the mere phrase makes me cringe and then seethe. It is used today as a new, fundamentalist arm of political correctness, designed to punish anyone who might say anything which might inflame the tender sensitivities of an endless succession of groups which feel they have been somehow put upon and therefore need redress. You can be accused of a hate crime in Birmingham these days, apparently, for suggesting that Jesus is the one true Prophet and the son of God. Or to advance the opinion that you
aren’t too keen on buggery, all things considered. Or even be
threatened with prosecution for a hate crime for suggesting — as I did — that Geordies are, by and large, thick. None of these things are crimes at all — they are matters of opinion, based upon faith or upon observable evidence or, in the case of the Geordies, both. Meanwhile,
to incite violence against a racial group is not a hate crime either — it is a crime, pure and simple.

And finally there are our evangelical Christians, with whom I agree about almost nothing. The one religious group which can, with some authority, claim to be speaking on behalf of the faith which formed the cultural mindset of this country has somehow become the most vigorously
persecuted and least protected. If you doubt this, ring your local council and tell them you want Christian-only swimming nights at your local leisure centre and see how long it is before the rozzers are banging on your door with their arrest warrants. Good luck, Mr Cunningham and Mr Abraham; the political force, I’m afraid, is not with you.
(END OF ARTICLE - it is available on-line for free at www.spectator.co.uk, which is where I pasted this from, or in the magazine itself).

Karen

Thank you for your posting Paul, it is very interesting and I agree, especially the bit about the Christian only swimming nights. We seem to bend over backwards to protect other people's freedoms, but not protect our own Christian freedoms. If we do not protect our right to freedom of speech, then Christians could be arrested in the future for spreading the gospel.

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